I don't understand what banners you're talking about! I don't have any banners that "sit on my browser until I buy something. And I apologize for calling you lame, that was wrong, I just hate to see the freestuff go, sometimes that's the only way to learn something, by seeing how someone else went about it. I don't even notice the banners and I still say I would not want to pay to access this site. We already went through this discussion a while back and it was voted down. As for a pissing contest, I don't pee standing up so you would probably win. Marque