Yeah poppi working with the phi files and building a hiarchy tree/setup is awesom,thanks to all the good info and help from this site i can make this guy poseable soon as i made him a year ago but never felt confident to poserize him as i tried once or twice and the mesh split all over the er..joint ; ) now i just gotta work tonight then im off for a few days so ill be updating my rigging skills from now on and hope to add sonic and the elephant to freestuff (Thanks about the elephant its my cats chewtoy in real life,and now it sure dont look too much like an elephant thats for sure.) all the best and cheers. khall