Free doesn't mean good. Taanstafl still applies, but I'll stand by this indefinitely. Free does not mean good. It doesn't mean it's bad, either. Good means good, bad means bad, and free means read the fine print, err, I mean, free. There are bad free things, there are good free thins, and there are indifferent free things, but all are free -- which in and of itself does not mean that it is a good thing. This isn't a generalization, it's an absolute fact. I just double checked my dictionary to be sure. Curious Labs did, in fact, attempt to enter the market for content. There is a very good example of their failure at it this time present in Content Paradise. You underestimate the Power of Bryce... err, I mean, Bryce users have existed longer than Poser has, and for the bulk of Poser users, Bryce was used first. If your point of reference is rosity, DAZ, or PPros, then your worldview is a tad on the small side. Brycer's are a far more potent force than realized. The potential market there is easily as great as the current one for Poser. It's part of the reason that development for a certain company includes the conversion to native bryce format for all it's products, and this has, now that I think about it, ensured that it will happen sooner, not later. Whilst Bryce languished in the hands of Corel, creating content for it -- which had just started right before MC sold it off -- was not wise -- someone has to have a willingness to develop a product to continue to generate users. Bryce has been hurting a bit longer than Poser because of that. And there are some very substantial products intended primarily for Bryce right here in this marketplace, as well as a thriving freebies section. Seriously -- google the darned thing for a hint of an idea... Your marketplace definition is limited. Ultimately it's not us DAZ is courting -- us being people who already use Poser. They are courting them, meaning the people who don't know about what we do without funky little software programs and our bizarre unreal terms. They are seeking the people who do NOT have poser -- and there are a hell of a lot more of them them than there are of us. get enough of them, and you don't need to worry about us. You're talking biz plans (the failure of Sega is roundly considereed to be due to poor planning and worse execution), I'm talking economics and marketing. You're talking content versus hardware, I'm talking software versus software (beta or not, it's still moving forward, and while it's still a broke dog, they've called the vet). DAZ is developing a competing program that they intend to use as a reduction to the barriers of entry. They just acquired a whole new marketplace, and will, if my estimates are correct (and thus far have been) shortly be announcing (within the next 90 days or so) another marketplace. Both of these new ones are still in their infancies. Which is EXACTLY where DAZ was when Dan and crew bought themselves out of Zygote and became DAZ. They do know what the hell they are doing when it comes to creating new markets when everyone is laughing at them. In fact, Dan Farr is probably even more determined to do it after such things (he's that kinda guy). So don't snigger -- the reason this conversation is even being had to this degree is in good part becuase of DAZ's success in that area ;) Calling is DAZ Render, btw, isn't effective -- it makes it difficult for less perceptive minds to understand what you are talking about. It's DAZ|Studio. Let it be known by that, for the sake of clarity if nothing else. Now, I've come out several times before and noted things about the manner in which DAZ is acting. They have had people within it make statements that have been somewhat presumptive -- my most recent trigger was the whole milhorse debacle, for example -- and I'm going to re-itereate it once again because it's important to understand a couple things. 1 DAZ needs income while they finish staging. Poser Users are that income. 2 No successful company will ever intentionally destroy it's goodwill. We are that goodwill. DAZ has a cash cow in the form of the current base of Poser users. They Will Not Stop Making Poser Products In The Foreseeable Future. Just like this one little website that grew into this gigantic monstrosity of a mess, DAZ is based in Poser, and in Poser they will remain. That won't change until they have at least enough users using D|S format products as they currently have using poser format products -- and I don't mean through conversion, I mean in addition to. I'm talking doubling what they have now. And even then, ya know, I doubt it will change. Cause why, when it's a "gimme"? Dan Farr and Chris Creek might be a lot of things, but stupid ain't one of them. However, will we ever see a Vicki that has a different joint set up to improve the way she bends? Will we see Daz products developed that continue to popularize the innovations constantly arising from the community? Will we see DAZ continue to lead in bringing these innovations to market as they have done before? Me, I don't believe so. I believe that the primary products lines will stale as they apply to Poser because the corporate focus on development will be towards the in-house program -- which, again, is wise business use of assets. Will they leave the community? No. They won't. Will they drive a wedge? Maybe -- that's actually more up to the community (we tend to take sides here, when there is no need to do so) than it is to them. For now, though, I'm off to see what mischief I can cause -- I'll betcha Carolly and Sho are wondering what the hell I'm up to...

thou and I, my friend, can, in the most flunkey world, make, each of us, one non-flunkey, one hero, if we like: that will be two heroes to begin with. (Carlyle)