Well I havn't looked at Max in a while so things have probably changed in the most recent versions, But I was talking about the old Max renderer, which was inferior to LWs and the lack of character animation stuff, soft body dynamics, and voxel particle engine. Nice to know they Give you a better renderer now. anyway just a casual outsiders observation. I don't personally use either app. (too rich for my blood) and I admit LWs interface is a pain in the butt :D