i cant play Quake..lol..i get motion sick..;)...thanks for the suggestion..ill give it a try... Amorphium was fun to play with, but i definitely like C and am getting much more out of it..im using it and Flash to create some short animations ive been wanting to do... personally when i render i dont shoot for the photorealism..i prefer the lines and color..and the photorealism is never quite right..not yet, so it just looks off...Poser is coming a long way in terms of quality..it would be nice if there was some sort of real time union between Poser and C...or, i hate to say, whatever programs to get the best of all worlds...