On Painter, I have to agree 100% with your assessment. At one point Metacretions had Detailer, which was a specific Painter package for 3D that showed a lot of promise. I liked it a lot because it was based on on Painter a lot, so if you knew Painter you kind of knew Detailer. Then they messed up with the second version, Painter 3D. It was a good idea, very badly implemented. I just don't know what Metacreations was thinking when they divested their company from all the wonderful programs they had. Poser, Bryce, Carrara, Painter, Painter 3D, Canoma and all the other plug-ins for Photoshop. At one point I thought they would integrated all there software packages in to a killer 3D suite. Unfortunately all these packages are being developed separately and independently from one another, this integration will only come as a advanced 3D format, if all these companies decide to go that route. At least Carrara speaks to Poser, somewhat. I have also noticed that Bryce 5 is being offered for $50. At that price is hard to resist. I did not want to buy it before when it was on Corel's flaky hands, but now I think I will pick it up. As anybody used it on a Mac? Is it good?