Its chef should get all queries about it's VORACITY... <<<<<<<<<< LOL. The 'e's and 'o's in alphabet soup always get stuck in my teeth. Thank you very much for correcting my error. Forgive me if I don't take the time to go through your posts with a fine, er, toothpick. ;-) I think you are wrong about how it went down, CharlieBrown. I can only suggest you read the DSI crew's various statements carefully. I've seen nothing to suggest that DSI were reluctant parties. In fact, I got the impression they were extremely bloody keen parties. Peregrinator pretty much sums up above why I feel the way I do about DSI, and that feeling is why I have 'attached a permanent sneer to my face' over the issue. My ongoing cynicism about DSI is nothing to do with attempting to be 'cool', it's just accurate comprehension. But it's not just the pretend virtue, double standards and hypocrisy of DSI's actions in this that irritates me, it's their commercial mindset being applied to inappropriate things. Don't get me wrong, I am seriously in favour of commercial enterprise; people making money out of their creative efforts is top notch activity in my book. It's a different thing to take over and run an already established mutual self help community on that basis, though (of course, EdgeNet are as guilty as DSI in this respect, and I have never shyed away from saying so. The main difference with EdgeNet is they don't pretend to be doing anything different). I have worked hard and devoted a lot of time and energy in moderating and administrating on a forum setup, and I did it to put something back into the community from which I benefitted. The idea of doing it for money simply didn't enter into it. I don't think Jack's and Ed's actions speak well of them at all. They were looking for a community to make money out of, and they did what they could to do so. It was their choice to operate commercially, and I have no more reason to be grateful to them than I have to the manufacturer of this monitor I'm looking at. There are so many people who do so much for the Poser community just because there is a community and they are a part of it, that I find it outrageous that people like Jack and Ed gain the status of virtual saints. Anything positive that might say about people's tendency toward personal loyalty is more than offset by the negatives about people's tendency toward gullibility. Anyway, I don't particularly want to go through all this again, so if anyone is remotely interested in what I have had to say on this (...crickets, ...tumbleweeds, etc) , take a look at TRenderforums on 'egroups'. Now that DSI have started their own online community, from as scratch as they can under the circumstances, I genuinely wish them luck in their commercial endeavour. There are a few reasons I bothered having a go at Jack when he came on this thread. I thought he was being a pompous, snotty git. I thought he was just further damaging an already fractured situation. I thought he was doing so for opportunistic reasons. He could have just dropped a line to Curious Labs on Artist3D's bahalf, he could have just left the suggestion that Artist3D contact Curious Labs. But no, he had to play the high and mighty hero and try and score some points. Since this thread made me very angry from the start (the only one here to do so) my reaction was pretty inevitable. And this is Complaint and Debate, the looney forum, so if anyone doesn't appreciate my taking a pot shot, then it's tough bloody titty on you. I think the forum would best be deleted, but while it's here, I'll be getting stuck in with everyone else.