Guess I'm not Bryce-geeky enough to understand why exactly I would need to render without lights... I get the color bounce bit, though. But I'm not really excited about even longer render times. :-( That said, your images look good, Len. And I wish you luck. Gonna go back to sleep now and let the geekier people have their thread back. ;-P -Heidi P.S. Cris was just bookmarking the thread so she'd get e-bots when someone replied. Our lovely antique formus here don't have a "watch this thread for responses" option. (Don't get me started on that.)

One goes into the house of eleven eleven times, but always comes out one. -River Tam