LOL! I'm starting to feel the unofficial honor of being the hot topic killer as I seem to be the last or near last person to post on some of the long debates here. Maybe I should change my handle to "Thread Killer". It probably would make a better avatar than deci6el. I'm gonna take another crack at this even if I'm only talking to Maxxx. Hey, Maxxx. The massive population here is equaled by almost as many contexts that members are working in. When viewed all at once it makes an insane image where good and bad can not be defined because those pitiful evaluations can only exist in one context at a time. To those who are starting out here every render that doesn't crash may be a victory and being supported for that is beneficial when the sheer complexity of the work will make the less commited run away in horror. Meanwhile in another context those who make a living at this must hold each other to the same levels at which proffessional standards demand. That is the challenge if we are to make the forums a more potent communication. We have to try to understand what set of rules they are living in. Geez, I see this in print and it looks impossible. Example: "No postwork allowed". It often seems to me a ridiculous limitation and I have seen many good renders fall short of being a great illustration because they live in a set of rules that won't allow them out of the program. As an illustrator that seems stupid but as an animator it builds strength in not allowing a scene to go over budget as frame by frame work tends to do. Yep, I'm blabbering now, You either got it or didn't by now. Hope it made sense to some.