Right! you've all got me thinking too, I've got 3DMax and Rhino and have as yet only done the very basic of basic modelling, but I think I will delve into this modelling stuff a bit more deeply. You never know I may be good at it and I'll never know if I don't give it a try, right? So I may see you later if I come up with something useful. It would also be so pleasurable to give stuff to folks in the community in return for all the freebies I've downloaded myself. Catlin