A CL employee recently told me that it would be out in 2005. As with any major software release, I wouldn't recommend holding your breath until the company announces a release date, and even then, don't hold your breath. :-) Let's not forget that the current CL team is not the same bunch that were compelled to rush the P5 release, nor are the two or three people who ended up being tarred and feathered for their pre-release hype with the company any longer. The cynicism is understandable, all history considered, but I think we should give the current CL team a show of good faith. I'm very excited to hear what Poser 6 will entail. I recently upgraded to 5, and totally love it. I feel badly for the people who invested early before many of the bugs were squashed, though.