I have had carrara for about 3 weeks and really am not used to it yet but getting there however using the vertex modeler is difficult beacuse the axis is so weird. I never know wich way things are going to move, i really like this site everyone is really cool, and theres alot of resources As for the way i did the model so far i used the spline model room to do half of the face and then converted it to a vertex and mirrored, duplicate with symetry and subdivide thats also when things start to get ugly im trying to find a tutorial on the vertex but everyone seems to say it sucks i will make one if i get good enough and show how to do this if anyone can use it everyone here is probally more skilled than me though thanks again