I just bought it Ynsaen. There is money in this market folks. Poser allows an idiot like me to learn a few 3d words and make photorealistic renders without much effort. If you are a merchant you are in the wrong business if you think releasing an untextured 3ds model is going to make you rich. The merchant who consistently offers the most versatility and quality is going to get my money. In any other business do you bitch to your client about how hard it is to make Poser 5 material files? Folks, Poser 5 beats the shit out of Poser 4 and Poser 4 Pro Pack. Anyone here who knows me knows I am the laziest SOB in Poserdom - I want immediate gratification with the least amount of brain work. If I can render a scene with 5 DAZ Victoria 3's with Firefly, shadows on, with a high poly set in the background without waiting 30 minutes for it to render and YOU ARE then you haven't done your research and are bitching and complaining about something you don't fucking understand. The Poser merchants continue making Poser 4 !!!! CRAP !!!! because so many veteran Poser users continue using Poser 4 even though it sucks limp glands compared to Firefly which just kicks it all over the playground simply because of some PRINCIPLE they hold near and dear to their heart about the good 'ol days of the Poser community. In Poser 4 you have to fake mirror effects. In Firefly you render the fucking mirror effects !!! AS IS !!! WITH P5 MATERIALS!!! The buyers of Poser are holding Poser potential down by their principles of being married to a dead horse. Yes Poser 5 sucked when it was released and perhaps it pissed people off but it now is kicking Poser 4's ass all over the basketball court and there's no reason to continue wearing it's wedding ring. ram