Jcleaver: If you ever do get to see any of my credit card info' please be sure top it up with some much needed funds. Phantast: Hadn't thought of that way myself. Thanks. Xoconostle. A very balanced and considered reply to my post. I too do not think it is right to name names. It would be better for DAZ to defend there own corner but as you indicate, thats unlikely to happen. I forgot about SIGGRAPH. I've been patient for 9 months so a while longer will not make much difference.