Lemurtek, that looks great, just to turn the knees around. I was thinking to splice arm to buttock so I had elbow instead of knee but I have to redo all the Join Perameters and I can NEVER get that right. I have been okay at doing mesh stuff even though I never have figure out how to use modeling software but even with simple head transplants I can never get the boning right... or joint parameters... anyway... I am so terrible at it... I am a total end-user :( I wonder if the Bloodsong book would help but I am over budget for a while since I did the I went nuts with the DAZ Platinum Club ninty-nine cent sale to load up on stuff (joined to do it).