It certainly would be fun to reverse the Opel Blitz up to the gathering, pull up the canvas and let rip with the MG42, but - - too much chance of collateral damage. (and too much holiday perspective rendering this whole thing rather silly) I would like to think that draculaz (or anyone) and I should be able to scratch each other's eyes out without someone else feeling the need to suspend their project. Such a drastic step should be taken entirely in that person's interests and not in my name. I responded to drac's post because I knew Len wasn't around to defend himself due to being focussed on completing PRO-RENDER. I responded with hostility because it was yet another attack based on ignorance. Accusing someone of 'bullshit' is one thing (plus being a personal attack under the TOS, or so I've been told by senior staff here), but such an accusation primed by misinformation is quite another. Having been previously made aware that there are alternative views of the so-called 'bullshit' (plus links to evidence), it behoves a person to investigate the facts rather than continue to spurt vitriolic accusations. That's the kind of hysteria better suited to subjective religious ranting than CGI technique/product discussions; which benefit more from straightforward empirical methodology like - actually reading threads in the Renderosity Bryce forum. With the latter in mind, I'd like to address a question above by Slakker: ++++++++++ "PJF, where the hell did you get that True Ambience was involved?" ++++++++++ I got it from the original PRO-RENDER thread: http://www.renderosity.com/messages.ez?Form.ShowMessage=1822731 In post 40, I asked, "Does "PRO-RENDER" use True Ambience?" In post 45, pumeco answered, "The PRO-RENDER method uses true ambience..." It wasn't via hell; it was really quite straightforward - I simply read what pumeco wrote. I'm not sorry if that sounds patronising - it's meant to be. You were present in that thread; the facts were there for you to see. The same goes for all the shrieking here. Other than the absolute specifics, Len/pumeco has explained what PRO-RENDER is. If anyone doesn't get it, it's purely down to them. Reading the facts will reassure all but the most desperately insecure that PRO-RENDER is entirely unthreatening, and incapable of "splitting up the Bryce Community".