lol, those tuts make it look so easy.. Oh just pull a few points here, extrude a poly there. Bam box modeled human in no time. Anyone care to point out the spline method too, I'm just curious. Going to try to model something else tonight, not sure what it will be, probably another head though. I think that in all actuality.. a realistic human face is one of the hardest things to model.. mainly because we see so many of them every day and use them as a main source of recognition. Next time I'll try using a reference image.. although I've never really done that before or had a whole lot of use for it..