tjohn: I got to the part where you talked about dragging the 'bracket' up a little until you see the dark red replace the black (where's the bracket - is it the slidebar) and if so, I slid it up and there was no colour red to be seen. Also I don't quite understand the paint effect thing. I loved the shaggy edges on your rug. I am rendering a sample now so you can see what I achieved... but I don't think the shaggy edges will be there... I did get some undulations though... -Susan