Heck, I sent them an email expressing displeasure at the way the upgrade and the announcement of C4 treats existing users. Got a nice email back today, but it didn't offer much -- The Eovia rep mentions that that the "regularly scheduled newsletter" hasn't been sent out yet, which is why everybody BUT the existing users of C3/Amapi were told C4 was coming out. He also repeats that the upgrade from C3 to C4 "pro" is cheaper than buying C3 right now with the free upgrade to C4 (whether "pro" or "lite," I don't recall.) This is correct; two-hundred something versus four-hundred something. But it doesn't address that it is still two-hundred something whether you own C2, or C3 plus Amapi plus Transposer. He had nothing to say to my opinion that the "Pro"/"Lite" division was an artificial distinction made just for marketing -- and that there was little in the "pro" version to earn it that title. We've addressed this in a previous thread; after the C1-C2 jump (sub-D surfaces, GI render engine,) and the C2-C3 jump (UVmapper, Tree generator, HDRI), the C3-C4 jump is....blurry reflections? We were expecting at least a full-blown particle system (or something equally cool.) And not a word on whether they've done the bug fixes we've been harping on here. Seems to me that Eovia is giving up on several aspects of the program to concentrate on others -- on, it seems, rendering for commercial use and web use. The sole "upgrade" in the modelling functions of C4 is "We now give you the full version of Amapi instead of a cut-down one." Their apparent responce to the lousy manual is "If you are among the first hundred people buying we'll send you a better manual written by an outsider."