wow folks thanks for the detailed help /tut Im gonna PM one of the admins to post this in the TUTorial section ockham your works great . Well explained .Great for beginer/intermediate jupiterkris yours im still working on but i found your to to have many application & purposes for many other idea & issues i have had i think your intel will help alot . also gonna check out your link you left. ADV /intermediate i think this would help alot of people cus both of you put it into lamen terms so that almost any one can understand it .Kudos to both of you thanks a bunch your render buddy Methastopholis PS . iwont make a recommendation if you would not like me to .