You speak of how nothing anyone can say will make a difference to me and yet you did not address what I said in regard to the fact that the bounce messages all say that the sole reason they were rejected was that I had been added to spamcops blacklist,yet they insist they have no blacklist and were not involved in my site being on a blacklist!!I argued with them and now I argue with you that they are the ones saying things that "contradict" their faq so why in the hell would it make any difference for anyone to go there and read up on them??? Also,you must remember that this company was on the verge of collapse not too long ago until they were bought out by people whose sole motivation is listed by them as this being a "money making opportunity"...I wonder why they were on the verge of collapse if their service is so valuable and the service they provide desired by consumers? It is also a fact that because spamcop is doing this and making money fighting spammers that the spammers are using their very existence now to argue that consumers who don't wish to recieve spam have a means to block them...thus,legislators are increasingly inclined to ignore this issue and look only at possible abuses. The area that I disagree with you Eliza isn't that you were providing the pro to my con...its that you did so to the point of totally ignoring valid points that I made against their service while I at least listened and agreed with you several times. The point here is this,regardless as to how it happened these people feel that they have the right to blacklist every site on a server because just one is a reported spammer...and even then they go by a number of complaints and do nothing to actually verify if the complaints themselves are valid.They admit they recieve millions of reports of spam yet it only takes ten complaints in an hour to get you on their list...not ten complaints every hour from what I read,just ten in one hour and then there are three days in which if "no" complaints are registered they'll take you off.And what if it is a virus or some other issue...how will I know if I'm not recieving rejected pm's and they don't inform me I'm on their list?? Further,you keep saying to change ISP's...my ISP isn't doing anything illegal here and they're a damn good host,so why should I change servers when that will cost me money??I hate spamming but you fail to address the fact that these people are not violating the law...thus,if they are not violating the law and these people are taking the law into their own hands its spamcop itself that is violating the law now isn't it!! You fight spamming Eliza by fighting to have new laws and regulations created to restrict or limit its usage by defining abuse...thats been one of the biggest flaws those fighting spam have had because they're angry and want it all stopped!You can't stop spam anymore than you can legally stop businesses from putting sales papers in your PO Box,its legal Eliza so you have to fight it legally and not take the law into your own hands or else you become as bad or worse than the problem itself! "It's very clear to me that nothing anyone says will make any difference to you, however, so I'm done trying." Umm...you mean you were trying to make me set aside my grievence and agree with you??I don't see anywhere where you agreed with me that their policys were wrong and that they made incompetent,inept decisions even though I provided evidence that they did just that.Its very clear that you will defend these people regardless of the abuses they commit and your answer basically is for honest people who have done no wrong to change ISP's that legally have done no wrong because an anti spam service says they have and has taken actions against them...actions which in turn are themselves illegal because these actions can cause irreperable damage to honest businesses. I found one case where an ISP was added to this blacklist without anyones knowledge,a business owner was in the middle of a very delicate deal that was worth almost half a million dollars...suddenly communication with the other party stopped,the deal fell through and only later did they find out that they had been added to spamcops blacklist with no warning or any bounced emails because the people they were working with didn't realise the messages were now being filterred. In my case and apparently the case you presented about what happened to you,spamcops actions are an inconvenience...but to some people it can be life threatening.Lets say that a hospital goes on that list Eliza...people could actually die because some valuable communications are blocked due to spamcops vigilante actions.Again...spamcop does not inform people who are added to their list that they will be added or have been added,they themselves admit that unless you get bounced emails there's no way for you to know~but of course,just because your emails are blocked that doesn't mean they will be returned either! And kaweki,you seem to think that comparing this action to fascism is either a joke or in error...but you don't even try to argue that its not.I genuinely win arguments with people because all people inherently take sides while I don't until one side or the other proves themselves to be at fault!This discussion with Eliza,I am in full agreement with her on spam but she cannot bring herself to agree with me about the problems inherent within what spamcop is doing...thus,she took a side and no matter how wrong she is or if there are better ways,she will stand by these people and actually make my case for me by blindly supporting them. Why do I compare spamcop to the nazi's??The nazi's came to power by taking the law into their own hands and trying to overthrow a legitimate government and its laws by force...for all the problems that afflicted the German people,their system of law was not at fault~it was the law makers.Most of the people that the nazi's persecuted were guilty of no wrong,but because a few of their number may have been as the nazi's portrayed~the German people gave them their blind support!When you have a service that may punish hundreds because of the actions of one whom they know nothing about...when they don't even verify that this one is guilty of anything other than the accusations of a few people~isn't that exactly what the nazi's did?? Basically spamcop can be summed up as follows in regards to what they do. #1~They collect data from complaints made about spamming without verifying the validity of those complaints. #2~They collect the IP addys of the alleged offenders and post them on a blacklist. #3~They then submit this blacklist to ISP administrators around the world and then deny that they are involved with the resulting actions~actions which would not take place if not for their list and the fact that many ISP admins wrongly trust that this list contains only "confirmed" spammers! I summed it up by saying "they don't burn the witches,they just spread the rumors and lies that cause others to do it on their behalf"!So maybe this issue isn't important...then your child dies because the hospital fighting to save their life was added to a spamcop blacklist and valuable minutes or hours are lost because no one knew!And yes people..."THIS CAN HAPPEN" because spamcop does not verify the IP addys are spammers nor do they have a system in place to determine who the people are on these lists to prevent such a thing from happening!!

If the end goal of learning is genius...why are most geniuses failures at learning?