Thanks guys, I like the look of renders i've seen, I have been using Vue 4 & was contemplating Vue 5 to get the render quality matched with speed that i'm after...I really need a program that I can use for product design rendering (maily jewellery) interiors and exterior visualisation...I have access to Max but the rendering takes sooo long. Has anyone compared with Vue at all as the renderer isn't bad & looks like it's been improved somewhat for the new version? At the moment the lighting presets are swaying it for Carrara but you can't use them in the demo....what a pain! Brian