'Poor DAZ ... their customer base is SO hard on them, but not always without good reason' I have to agree. I won't go into the ins and outs of the bundles (I have no interest in them), but DAZ really ought to get a grip with their promotions. Most of these things are good deals when you get down to the nitty-gritty, but boy, is it ever difficult to figure them out! DAZ need to start keeping it simple, stupid. Never mind the expired shelf-life add-ons and byzantine calculations with vouchers and coupons. Just put out packs at good prices and cut the kak. 'start a new project and then devote all resources to it to the exclusion of (just about) everything else' That comment makes me laugh though. You may not like The Girl, but nobody can complain about lack of support for new chars. It's not so long ago that people were bitching because vicki and mike didn't have any clothes! Sometimes DAZ just can't please anyone. mac