Nice one Boni, I'll check that out. In the mean time I'm finallay logged on to Poserpros, WHEYHEY This site seems to have a lot of tutorials, a heck of a lot. I found this one which gives a very basic idea of modelling using 3d studio max (I'd be using the same principles but in lwave). The only thing it doesn't touch on is how to turn my lwave object .lwo into a .hr2 file. (this was the problem I also had with philc's skull cap http://www.comet-cartoons.com/toons/3ddocs/hair/ But I'm heading to Kozaburo's site right now. cheers