Attached Link: http://revolvingdesigns.com

Dont know if thats normal or not, and also when I save it, it takes very very very long to save, and plays possum acting like it crashed (ie opening windows in front of it then minimizing will leave blank white boxes, right clicking the task bar button for it only has the option to close

1.7 ghz AMD XP 2000
60GB
40GB
40GB
512 of DDR RAM
Nvidia GeForce2 MX/MX400

Ive worked with Bryce for some time now, but never one with this much architectural detail. Still littler than what it could be, I want to add a lot more to it, Clan Flags, maybe a small town, environmental objects ie waterfalls, mountains, ponds, trees

Any Suggestions?

Also has anyone had any experience with working with a Graphic Tablet in Bryce?

Attached Link: http://revolvingdesigns.com/darkcastle.jpg

Message edited on: 10/14/2004 02:13

I've never made a file that big, but I've seen others (like TheBryster, Flak etc.) talk about saves of HOURS! I saw the words 'seven hours' there in black and white recently lol

As I understand it, as long as you're having the problems you're describing (not letting you use the taskbar etc) Bryce is still saving. You'll just have to let it have its head :^) edit to add - ooohhhh....nice castle. a small quibble - I don't think you'd be able to see the colours in stained glass windows like that, from the outside, in daylight. How about darkening the atmosphere (but so the castle detail is still visible) and lighting the windows from inside? That would be pretty spectacular.

Message edited on: 10/14/2004 02:31

Well at least Im not crazy then with the preformance issues :) Ive definatly done the "24hr Render Dance" before :) As for the Lighting. Its actually a Flatened circle, with a transparent texture, and there is a light source behind it....mabey lowering the light source to a bit darker?

Yep, that's normal. I've had files with MANY millions of polygons, with file sizes reaching half a gig. Ask Ornlu what his biggest file was, but be prepared to catch your jaw before it hits the floor.

Keep these in mind when the saving/render times reach epic proportions:

1. If you can't see it, forget about it. (ie. If it is not going to be visible in the final render, why waste time and resources modelling it?)
2. Try modelling your scene in sections, saving each section to its own BR5 file. When you are ready for the final render, merge the files together.
3. Volumetrics, transparent and reflective materials increase render times exponentially. Use them sparingly.
4. Poser models are murder when it comes to poly count. Try using 2D pic objects instead. Do a Gallery searh for "roobol" to see what I mean.

Sweet castle by the way! I look forward to seeing where you go with this. :)

-Jay

it is normal... while saving Bryce acts like it crashed, don't worry just have patience. textures made of pictures increase a lot the Bryce file... try to use procedural textures where is possible...

really nice castle. two things: 1. Nvidia GeForce2 MX/MX400 is a horrible card. Don't know if you've had problems with it, but it's a low end deal that will cause problems with graphics. 2. really large scenes are a pain and bryce will fool you in 1001 ways to make you think it crashed. in general, anything over 200mb is going to be a pain. try to layer the render.

Things to speed up save time are 1) as mentioned already use procedural textures and 2) more RAM, don't why but it's true, I added an extra 256M to my machine to give it 3/4 of a Gig, a file that I've been working which was taking 5 hrs to save (164Mb file) now only takes about 3.

Gog- that may be because you were already working with your disk (virtual memory) due to needing the extra RAM. It would therefor have to read from the virtual memory area on the HD before it could write it to the regular portion of the HD. daemonknight- If you are using a photo texture for your stonework, you could make a copy and resample it down in an external editor. That would save you some memory space as bryce stores images as completetly uncompressed bitmaps. This would also have a side benefit of reducing the visual size of the blocks in your wall texture to a more realistic level. I think you might also have the bump inverted. The mortar seems to be extruded rather than inset. Nice model so far, seriously. Looking forward to seeing where it goes.

That is truly an INCREDIBLE castle, makes me just want to throw up my hands and give up on Bryce. I've had all those issues with rendering too, sheesh it drove me crazy. And yes the ram helps immensely, I recently upgraded another 512mb's and its made a world of difference. One little bit of advice, I think you should change the texture on the statues directly at the gate to a stone. Just the lion/type ones. And is your POV going to be what it is now or pointing down the center of all your poser figures?

I'm afraid that one of the things you have to put up with in Bryce. Big files mean big render times, especially if you have loads/thousands of objects. During our recent spate of render madness aka - The Crystal Palace, we were looking at saving-times of 12hours or more, with render times of around the same. My machine is getting on to around twice the power of yours but I also had something like 15,000 objects and 12.5millions polys to deal with. If you hit save, leave your machine alone until the drop-down toolbar disappears. Doing anything else could endanger your work. I usually save or render overnight. It's safer that way.

Aye, all of this advice is good, but not the CURE.... When you're saving such a large file, what you should do is save it under a different file name. Make it a serial thing, and delete the old files yourself. What's going on is that Bryce wasn't written for Windows, and has a problem deleting it's tempfiles and such. Don't bother with it, 90% of your current save times come from this problem. Just save it under a different filename! And your filesize isn't too incredulous, you can easily max your machine out using booleans alone... I can't wait to see your castle, can we see a preview? I went to your site but couldn't find it.

Jaymonjay: I know what you mean baout the "not visible forget it" thing, but I still havent decided on a POV of this pic yet, or even what will be added to it. So we shall see, once I get one Steady, then Ill most likely go about takeing out "hidden" objects. Thanks for the tips :)

draculaz: So far I havent had any trouble with the Card, but its most likely the reason for "jumpy" wireframes and what not. WHat do you sugest for a Highend, low budget Card, or ven mid way?

Gog_CA1: Thanks for the tips :)

Incarnadine: Its not a photo texture, I drew it up in photoshop. I could however try to Optimize the texture, Ill give it a try. I also think you may be right about the bump map....oops :)

karineq: Thank you so much for the compliments! Never ever give up on Bryce. Just cause you see something that goes beyon your means, all that means s that you should do a bit of reading and soak up as many tutoorials as humanly possible, even if its not for something your currently doing, its all about learning technique :) As for the POV , its still not decided, I did actually do a render from the POV that you mentions, and it came out nicely, but it left out the detailk form the top of the Castle, and Id like to get in as much of it as possible.

TheBryster: Hey man, Ive been meaning to compliment you on your work, and have definatly seen your Crystal Palace, and its nothing short of awesome. Great attention to detail and realisim, I can Imaigne the rendertimes. But what was the 12hr render dpi @ ? My render for "Reflecting on Meditation" took 24+ hrs http://www.renderosity.com/viewed.ez?galleryid=274356 but then again, as you stated your PC (or MAC cant discriminate :)) is twice the power, and this was a 300dpi render

shadowdragonlord: Im not to sure what you mean, but I think I already do it, I save my Bryce files in two different spaces, one on a Network Drive and the other on my PC drive, jsut incase something happens (power outage etc) it has happend , and I ended up with a broken file, and haveing to start all over again, which is quite sustrating, but these symptoms are when I save as a different file name. Heres the link to the main render thus far :) http://revolvingdesigns.com/darkcastle.jpg

If you haven't, make sure you change your "wireframe resolution", I almost always keep "motion" and "static" at 8, and as scenes get larger I take down the "selected". If you can, group parts of the castle, and in the attributes, specifiy it as "show as box". Also, if you can choose parts of the castle and save only them as seperate bryce scene files. If the finished parts aren't moved, then later when "merging" the scene files, all the parts will line up right where you had them originally. Obvious stuff, but thought I would mention it. ;o) AS

Aye, AS is dead on. There are many ways to optimize a Bryce scene, to make it flow better in Bryce AND for saving purposes. I love the geometry work, and I think your brick texture is nice, but the scaling is a bit off. Think about how big the individual bricks look on the castle walls, compared to the doorway/entryway? They would be the size of a house, HUGE! I understand it's a work-in-progress, though. I can't wait to see how it turns out! I like the crenelations and corner towers, very cool...

Very much agree SDL!

Like the optimizing ones. I may have come across them at one point or another, but never associated them with optimization, so a BIG thanks to you with these tips. Ive attached another render of this with a few corrected things like the inverted bump map (lol I cant believe I did that) and the size of them as well. Switched around a few things with the Windows (which arent fully done yet, Im still experimenting :), and I got my flags down with a "free stuff" American flag prop for Bryce I saw here, I used just the flag portion obj and made my own texture for it. And hey! Thanks for the Gallery Comment :)

shadowdragonlord Hey man thanks for the tips and advie, Im still working on it, the Brick size is really getting to me, it eather comes out to big or too small so I got it a bit smaller than the first on I belive, but I still dont think its enough, Mabey Ill redraw the texture to a smaller brick size. Who knows. We shall see. :)
Message edited on: 10/15/2004 01:27

you can adjust the texture scale in the materials lab. It is the top left button on each material channel window (the ones on the right wher your texture is loaded)

I thought the bricks looked fine either way. I mean who's to say how large they were made? I imagine bricks in medievel times were larger :) It truly looks amazing, congrats!!

Actually the typical fighting castle wall technique was a foot or two thick layer of stone (usually dressed, but not always) followed by over six or 8 feet of rough stone/rubble fill then an inner layer of fitted stone. Quality was very dependant on the time frame for the construction, the amount of funds available and the perceived level of threat.

Aye, I'm with Incarnadine on this one, my friend Karineg.

Who's to say? I'm to say, for one. Castles in 3D are one thing, but if it's realism you want to achieve, there are certain elements you should shoot for. Definitely NOT trying to be insulting, but this is one measure of "good" 3D versus "beginner" 3D.

This forum's existence negates any beginner-ism. The fact that we all found each other makes us non-beginners! So, when it comes to castles and dragons and things I've spent a lot of time reading, researching, and pondering....? I gotta give my honest opinion. Fair enough?

Now on to another point, something maybe you can help ME with, DaemonKnight? Backgrounds for the castles...? What are your ideas? What are your plans for this one...?

Message edited on: 10/16/2004 08:01

Hi shadowdragonlord, my info is based upon the research I did for middle period norman castles/fortifications when designing my own for use in a AD&D style adventure (still have the floor plans). Plus crawling around every one I got near on my trips to the UK and France. daemonknight - We only offer opinions, you are the only one you must satisfy with your work. We can only guess at the context you are setting this in and interpret it in our own manners. As to amateur, newbie, veteren, whatever!, we are all here to learn and exchange ideas, tips and help. (even those of us who have succumbed to the darkside and work in other packages - grin) As I may have said before, I am looking forward to see where you go with this.

Darksiders. They're everywhere... (returns to Rhino...)

Yeah! (slinks back to Cinema4D)