Mark, God don't I know it... I've had C3 since beta and still find new things every now and again... (like the Rotation point a few posts down) Nick, THANK YOU! THANK YOU! THANK YOU! THANK YOU! THANK YOU! THANK YOU! THANK YOU! THANK YOU! THANK YOU! THANK YOU! You've just saved me a little more time... and when I get C4 I'll run a test and upload the anim when I'm done. I'm finding more and more to like about 4 and when I get it, I might actually be able to realize a few ideas that just didn't pan out in 3. On a sad note (OT), most of the prelim work done for my little animation (.car files with the prelim animations) were destroyed when my computer bit the dust... I'm back now, but with a slower machine, and not as much drive space. I've restored the character files for the animation from backup CDs, but have to do the tedious re-animation procedure... this is why I hope that the new IK lives up to the hype from the site... It'll make the movement seem a little more natural... and it'll be faster than posing joint by joint. Thanks again, guys! Ken