The 'Top 20' doesn't mean a thing. It's a back-patting bunch of buddies and it has just the very occasional image that actually belongs in a Top 20 list. My images get big hit numbers and I never get near the Top 20 - and who cares? LOL. Not me. Advice: Do what you like, look at what you like and to hell with the rest. About thumbs: they are very, very important. If someone uses a joke thumb or none at all, there is NO way I will look at it. If it's V3's eye at close range, I'll avoid it too :o) I like thumbs that tell me what I'll get when I take the time to open the image. After all, I have thousands to choose from. By the way, I've been here a long, LONG time. Since before this place was called Renderosity. :] Fish