ok xantor, i appreciate the info, but, that tutorial doesn't teach crap. not trying to personally attack anybody, but its poorly written, from the steps taken to bad grammar and its not even really doing anything. its using an existing bone structure. it says nothing about creating one from scratch. i've lost faith in most of the tutorials at daz. i've read several of them and the majority are really bad, from spelling and grammar to what it is they're half-assed trying to teach. it seems like most who post tutorials there are just throwing up anything to get the free 25 bucks out of daz. does daz even read the majority of the tutorials on their site before they post them? grr... e.d.