jwdell, I have a question, are you posting solely for the reason of learning from a critique? I ask because of your statement: "My point is that I never learned anything from a critic". Does this mean you've learned things from other comments that were not critical? I'm a lil confused on that one. Maybe it's a lil different for me discussing this since I am a writer. I always love hearing when and if ppl have emotional responses to my work, if my writing makes them think, or be inspired or know that someone else feels/has felt the way they do so that they are not alone. If someone has a suggestion on how I can improve something, that's great too. For example, I posted "Sharks in Heaven" the other day, and I posted the original version and then one I modified slightly since the poem was a decade old. And I asked which version ppl preferred though most liked something about both shrug :> cara