Brian, I wont argue with you that Carrara 4s IK toolset is much better than Carrara 3s. It is faster, easier to use, produces better results & has options that C3 does not have (IK terminator) Farther up in this thread, for this specific rope example, it was asked if this could be done in C3, you said no I gave it a try & it seemed to work for me. I dont know if open discussion is arguing or not, but it is fun. :>) Did you open the C3 file I emailed you? It works in both C3 & 4. mdc Your solution to the Maxon demo is a good one.