Not trying to argue here, but if I wasn't right about the ImageWithSave Open/Save , then I'm really confused. Checked the manual and it seems to agree with me (pg 25). So I opened a Bryce file, there was the rendered image in bitmap mode. I turned off that option and saved as a new file. When I opened the new file, there was no rendered bitmap. Just rechecked, opened the file with render, ohh pretty, checked to IWS O/S saved over the copy from before that didn't have the bitmap, reopened the just saved file, and bitmap. Doesn't really help LunarTick, but she seems to have her answer. I'm just really confused because AS is saying onething and my eyes are telling me another. I don't know who to believe.