Well, I would like to go on record as suggesting that while I do think I will be upgrading to C4 pro for a few tools I look forward to playing with, I have also posted on this board before regarding my dissapointment that the modeling tools were imho less than what I would expect for an app I had to purchase... so I use Wings3d for my boxmodeling... no biggy... however, that said, I use Carrara Studio 2 for rendering, and I am now learning to animate with Carrara... I am having great fun with it... Infact I have just posted the terrific news regarding the release of C4pro over on a forum I moderate on... I cannot say that I agree with every method utilized within Carrara, or that I would ever consider to model anything in this app, but... for rendering I just think it is grande indeed... I don't really think I need anything else... and for animation, well... I viewed the green ninja sample posted by some beta tester, and wow... if I am ever able to animate remotely close to that then I will be one happy camper indeed... :D So there ya have it... am I less than another Carrara user simply because I don't use it for modeling? I don't think so... because I use Carrara most everyday for most every other function within the process of 3D... Happy 3ding all :)