I did have a reply to everyone that was so filled with wit, inteligence and thoughtful insight, that it would have caused all women who read it to want my children, and all men to want to be my best friend. But alas Renderosity seems to of eaten it and it is now lost for all time :-) So instead I will have to just say thank you to everyone for your help, I shortly have some of the books that have been recomended, and they should hopefully help me avoid a few beginers mistakes, and more importantly when I ask for help I'll be able to understand the answers. Thank you agin. Paul