"Renderosity has caved to pressure from PayPal. Starting November 22 your shopping choices in the Renderosity Marketplace will be censored according to PayPal's standards. Many merchants products will be eliminated. The resources available to you will be restricted by the corporate giant. If you want to keep your freedom, tell the admins how you feel about having your choices restricted to appease PayPal, a multinational corporation that doesn't know what art is." As a mistress of spin, the P5 Gestapo, and silly bitch, I feel compelled to admire this work of art in and of itself. For one, it doesn't mislead. For another, it's absolutely accurate. For a third, it is written incredibly well and essentially kicks ass. I love it. Tip o the bonnet to ya sirrah! "Maybe they could sell the adult items at Renderotica. Unless Paypal has the same policy there as well." Paypal has the same policy everywhere. As noted later on (by Diane herself, no less) Paypal is not accepted at Renderotica. "I don't understand how a banking company can dictate sales policy. Can someone explain? " Paypal is not a banking company. Paypal is not even a savings and loan company. Paypal is an evil unto itself. It has no regulations to which it must submit, no oversight, no FDIC insurance, nothing. Paypal is necessary, however. Still waiting on that list of other services that are mentioned to exist -- and just how many do you have? Go strictly credit card, perhaps? Processing fees triple or more the minute you sell something the processors deem to be adult. Won't even go into the costs that are associated with chargebacks for someone branded with that. I know. I'm treasurer for a group that did what was suggested in another post and went out and started a company and a website. And gee, I've managed to keep it going without spending more money, but it's not even close to as effective as selling here. yet. Support your independent content providers!!! It's a LOT easier said than done. "not to sound like a complete idiot, but how will that work for character textures? Is it only complete nudity, or partial nudity that will be banned?" It's not banned. Only from thumbnails (which means getting more creative there -- shouldn't be hard in a community of artists) and the first image of the three and then from images linked to offsite. "Fascism is when you impose your belief system on others against their will. If PayPal's actions aren't Fascist I've never seen it." sorry, wrong. That's only an effect of fascism. I know -- I've been accused of being fascist. From Encarta: Fascism, modern political ideology that seeks to regenerate the social, economic, and cultural life of a country by basing it on a heightened sense of national belonging or ethnic identity. Fascism rejects liberal ideas such as freedom and individual rights, and often presses for the destruction of elections, legislatures, and other elements of democracy. Despite the idealistic goals of fascism, attempts to build fascist societies have led to wars and persecutions that caused millions of deaths. As a result, fascism is strongly associated with right-wing fanaticism, racism, totalitarianism, and violence. That's fascism. Which bears more resemblance to some of the suggestions made in posts in this thread. I can now only imagine how wonderful it must be in the merchant's forum. Funny, too, how Nerd had to announce this, while the admins haven't bothered to say anyting officially about it yet. "Oh well, The Renderosity store was a great place to buy Poser items, but I guess all good things must come to an end! Thank you, you closed-minded, cowaring little "business men". " And what has changed all that much? There was, once, in another forum, a discussion about these very products where it was suggested that they be moved to a "special spot" within the store. 2 things wrong -- one, it would still be affected by this, and two, that was done once already. That special spot turned out to be a huge nightmare, and suddenly becomae a site on it's own -- I believe it's now called renderotica. one sec while I go look... yep, that's it. (sorry, no links. Can't link, but I can say it.) "And if eBay can sell adult items as long as PayPal isn't listed as a payment option, why can't Rosity?" Good question, Jackson! I'd high five but I'd like knock my monitor down and I can't afford another one (sides, it's so lame to high five these days...) I would think it has something to do with the tiny part of the letter that says : "...our rapidly expanding customer base, feedback from merchants, buyers, the community, and educators, limitations placed on sites with content deemed sexually explicit or adult in nature,..." Note that within the last three months I've seen five postings regarding folks being told that basically rosity is a porn site. Renderosity is listed as a porn site in several cities across the nation. Phoenix Arizona -- that bastion of democratic self reliance (hey, we impeached Mecham, ok?) -- has banned it from libraries and other government offices. Which are all under three levels of pretty democrat rulership, for those who want to pin this on politics. It ain't politics. There are more -- and that hurts. That means that new people can't get here. That means a reputation. And While individuals such as myself might not give a rats ass what someone thinks of us, that doesn't mean companies can (gee, anyone wanna buy something from Enron right now? What? no? They're theiving bastards? Oh, ok, just checking). btw -- um, don't hold this against me. Please go shop at my store -- I need the money :) anyway, the point there is that this is NOT only about Paypal. However, by meeting the "paypal" standards, odds are they can get themselves off those lists and improve their reputation. And that, unfortunately, means that, um, yeah -- they gotta change what can be sold in the store and the way it is sold. And what's really funny is that the nudity stuff is NO different from the ones at Poser Pros or other sites, and meets paypal guidelines quite nicely, thank you. Oh, and funny -- poserpros is not on that list of porn sites mentioned just a bit ago. NOw I would hope that no one here thinks I'm some sort of blankety blank rosity stalwart. Good lord, I'm banned from the merch forum becuase I got upset with them. You ever try to run a store here without the information they want you to have? I mean, we're talking about merchant emails that have "important links" to stuff in the forum -- links I can't follow so I can't know. So don't try pinning that on me. Aside from my settin ya straight, I'm not so sure Clint and Lillian would say I'm one of their all time fave folks. Course, I'm not looking up noses, either. So let's see -- to get More exposure and increase the marketshare and stay competitive in the larger market, they have to limit the sales of a single group of items. I mean, for cryin out loud folks, we've got an 8 year old selling in the store! For his allowance money no less (and, well, no he hasn't sold anything from what I can tell, lol) Then there's this part: Effective immediately Renderosity will no longer broker the following types of products: 1) Poses or activity were any person (regardless of age) appears that they "could" be engaged in sexual activity. 2) Items that appear "sexual in nature" or are intended for "adult audiences" (example: bondage gear). 3) Products that display child or teen nudity. Ok, so the first one simply matches the rules in the galleries. Damn. There goes our hypocrisy level. We were really gettin 'em with it, too. The second one, well, hell, I've used some of the stuff in the stores as part of the outfits in fantasy images. Then again, there's other stuff that doesn't quite work that way. Who makes the call? Clint. Him I know for sure, and knowing his methods overall, he'll probably consult with a couple others -- Jeny, Lillian, Debbie, for ex. Love him or hate him, clint has no problem making decisions. he does need to back off a bit sometimes when he takes heat for them and listen instead of just crossing his arms and glaring with sarcasm, but generally he tries his damndest. And gets little credit. Which is wrong. Folks at Poser Pros make a call and it's all sweetness and light. Here they are evil incarnate. uh-huh, yeah. Maybe thick at times, but not evil incarnate. "If we're paying for it, why should paypal care what we're buying?" Paypal doesn't care. Paypal 's beancounters were counting beans one day and notcied that folks doing porn stuff -- both merchants and customers -- were costing them a ton of money. So they said screw that and told the lawyers to draft a policy. And well, someone already made a bad suggestion about them (hey, my daddy was a lawyer. He just wasn't anything like william shatner). "50. Re: Your Choices in the Marketplace will be censored by PayPal by Dale B on 11/15/04 22:17 Please. Listen to a 25+ year veteran of retail. Do not just drop PayPal and Visa. Take 30 minutes, and write up a detailed, polite, explanation as to =why= you are taking your business elsewhere. It is very easy to hide truth when the customer just goes away. Letting them know exactly why you are depriving them of your money is much harder to hide. Tell some friends about it, and if they agree, get them to follow your example. Neither PayPal or VISA are irreplaceable; there are alternatives to both. Remember the Exxon Valdez, and Exxon's 'we're not cleaning up shit!' attitude...until they started getting all those Exxon cards back in the mail, cut up. The general public =is= the tail the wags the dog, folks. Rosity most likely will not draw this line in the sand; they seem far too interested in getting that 'family' approval star....despite the fact that it will destroy them. As the purchasers, it is our job to stand our ground. " Great, except I really don't see how this will destroy them when the almighty DAZ has an even more rigorous policy in place and is considerably larger and more potent a player. Sex still sells folks. Except now you gotta get more creative in they way that sex sells. "Renderosity's actions are to the extreme. As I stated, Poser Pros also accepts Paypal and also has guidelines in regards to nudity and porn. Yes, they do not allow certain things however, alot of the items here are also either considered art elsewhere or are parts of the lifestyles of certain segments of our population. I think this is an ill-thoughtout, knee-jerk plan. "Family-Friendly" my arse... I am more comfortable browsing over at Poser Pros with my 9 yr old anyway. WHAT does that tell you? " I'll have to disagree. Rosity's actions are sudden, however. No warning, no gentle easing of something like this like they would normally do. No, this is caused because someone got pissed off at them and reported them to paypal. At least in part. but, again, these guidelines are now Exactly the same sort as Poser Pros already has in place. And they are also why you are more comfortable browsing poser pros with your kid than here. That will likely change shortly. Well, except the forums. lol "I take it Renderosity wants to take advantage of these programs" well, they won't be able to -- they still have nudity in the galleries and nudity in the store. 2nd and 3rd images. And now I've reached the end.

thou and I, my friend, can, in the most flunkey world, make, each of us, one non-flunkey, one hero, if we like: that will be two heroes to begin with. (Carlyle)