actually, the way that we implemented the jaw rig in HER might be of some interest in this discussion: it was accomplished with some pretty exacting joint parameters; the geometry used for the group was actually the lower teeth. In doing it this way,we also included an upperTeeth group, effectively seperating the teeth from the head and the top teeth from the bottom, allowing morphs of the mouth area to be created without the concern of accidentally affecting the teeth geometry. Conversely, it also allows one to do extensive morphing of the teeth without the extra vertices from the head being involved at all. Another consideration is dummy bone rigging for the eyelids, as we have done with HIM and the Phibian. You have to be extremely careful with the joint parameters, but doing this can allow a much greater control of the facial elements in a way that is far more natural than morphs. In the eyelids its especially useful: morphing moves vertices in a straight vector; the outter surface of the eye is curved. Because of this morphs have to be sculpted to account for the protrusion from the curvature in many Poser figures (many of ours included in that...). This can cause blink, squint and any other morphs closing the eyelids to appear rather unnatural. By using a bone rig for the eyelids, one can successfully create a deformation of the eyelid area that curves based on the pivot point of the bone, effectively moving the vertices in an arc, naturally keeping the mesh "sliding" over the curved surface. We continuously experiment with methods of expanding what can be achieved with rigging in Poser. Methods of bone deformation for facial expressions are common in "high end" environments, but there is no reason the paradigms used there cannot be applied to Poser. It just takes some patience. :) -Les