Ang..all creative pple are pretty different..which makes us so special.. :-) Thanks a lot guys..will keep trying..and will go thru the tuts.. I really want to learn how to create my own stuff..if not spaceships..but abstract shapes..or otherwise. Will give the wings chaps a shout on the IM everytime I get stuck. Which may be often..be patient with me.. Pauljs..I have no idea what I did to it..I mirrored, extruded, compressed, squished, mushed, pulled it at different points. Never seen a torus act so weird. Feels like you working on dough... will post a few better models later on..