"If it helps - move body parts with the dials not the tools. could never get to grips with those tools." I agree. Better yet, ensure that the Parameters Palette is displayed, and select the body parts from that (or from the heirarchy pallette). Double-clicking on the body part works most of the time, but it's too easy for your hand to slip slightly and actually introduce an unwanted change. And there are some occasions when you can't easily click on the body part anyway (IE if something else is in the way). Once you learn how to move using the dials, many poses become a lot easier:-) (but it does take practise). And also I agree with the previous comments. Poses need to created "from the inside out". After all, if you move your hand to pick up something, you don't actually move just the hand. You move all of the arm (and possibly part of the upper part of the body) to get the hand to where it needs to be. So you need to do that in Poser too.. Cheers, Diolma