Thanks everyone. I will try out those 2 mats dvd master. GG...As per my usual habit the church is all built from bryce primitives, well mostly all. I did find the window somewhere. The door arch is actually a flat square using one of the textures from the site jaymonjay mentioned and a trans I made from it. Think I will have to have another go at that church. It just didn't go as well as the Lych gate. No post work yet..can sort hair out later.

The greatest part of wisdom is learning to develop  the ineffable genius of extracting the "neither here nor there" out of any situation...."