max, i am ready to give up rendering in poser. I have Vue4Pro sitting here in a box, and four computers ready to be a startup render farm. It is a commercial film. But so low budget I don't want to kick up to the maya etc. world. the main thing I am sorry to see drop away, however, taking my poser characters into Vue, is face_off's Skin Shader and various other proceedural materials I am just coming to love in Poser. I will post back in the morning with my shadow map = 3000 trial. I could also try raytrace, but I want the soft shadows, as you suspected. ::::: Opera :::::