That's very timely for me, that cloth information...I am just about to venture in there. I will go in scaled up, believe me! Thanks Ronstuff. I wish other people WOULD verify the animation flicker problem and that it is solved by scaling up. Just make a simple animation from a figure with intense texture and bump map, go in real close (focal length on camera of 135 or so) and make a short anmation with just the head twisting. 30 FPS. I BET you will get flicker on depth shadow settings that can only be solved by jacking the shadow map WAY up, or by scaling up. I also bet the flicker can be found in Poser4 renderer. ::::: Opera :::::