I was reffering to microsoft's lack of real, honest to goodness support for thier own products. no jumping through hoops to get any information from them ( .net passport ) no support at all for a full install version of windows. that is what I was talking about. building a system for someone, installing windows on it, needed a specific .dll that would not register properly during install.. "it's oem you have to talk to the manufacturer" from microsucks support desk. that is a lack of support. blame autodesk for using internet exploiter's interface. qt, gtk are both interface specs and run under any os. so they don't have to build from scratch. oh, qt, borland's products use it, so does winders.