I guess I should have been more specific.......I wasn't counting the lighting......that I know....I was talking about the manual & the actual program refering to V4Pro....obviuosly there was some intertwining...to CERTAIN specifics..... That's why I upgraded as well...the lighting...waiting on Infinite myself.....I really didn't mean to start...don't know how to say it diplomatically...so I'll leave at that. We all have our opinions of V5...I'll keep my mouth shut from now on....and stick to disappointments over at E-ON. That said...I love Vue & will be my program of choice for rendering & landscapes :)