thanks jack and i didnt notice the military thought you seemed quite gentle about it did i mention i have poser installed 11 times on my harddrive cause i dont know how you move those runtime folders around without messing things up lol so everyone gets there own program lol one more question for all of you i been trying to do thumbnails now someone wrote me about that is there anyway that you know of to be more consistant in the size of them i kinda eyeball this stuff not to up on pixel thingys oh ya and what exactly does virtual memory have to do with all this anyway? do i need to know that?