nope,it doesn't even use bump maps ..with 70 odd texture maps I decided bumps would be overkill,and you dont even notice they aren't there ;) I have to wonder, though. Wouldn't a little displacement make a huge difference if you were rendering some of those brick walls up close? Actually, that is something that would be easy enough for the user to do (and adding bumps or displacements to the whole scene would probably be suicidal for render times:) eric