(smirks at ysvry!) I didn't know Blender had collisions... Hopefully they work better than Poser 5's so-called collisions. I guess it's a perfectionism thing, I really dont' mean to be elitist about things. There's just a big difference in the way hand-positioned chains look, versus the way chains look in real life. And I am NOT going to hand-position thousands of chain links, I'm really just lazy and looking for a fast way to do it... Think I found it...