"About the Cloth room - sounds to me like you'd be happier if "drape from zero pose' and 15 draping frames were the default? Or am I misunderstanding you?" Not really... I guess I should've worded it a bit better myself :) It just seems that there are too many controls and too much work going into something that other programs seem to be capable of doing in very little time, at least in comparison to the massive calculations that Poser churns out getting basically the same thing done. The NURBs reference was just in relation to how Rhino handled it, but I'm fairly sure that it wouldn't reallt be a necessary condition to draping, at least if all that was necessary was a few basic collision parameters. It just seems that IMHO the Cloth room was over-engineered for what most people who use it get out of it. "Carbon as a porting path was the plan 4 years ago, but Apple has changed its mind in the mean time. On every developers conference they stress that Carbon is a full citizen of OS X and that it's here to stay and that it will be updated." Heh - for some reason, that doesn't suprise me :) /P