Not realy, it is actually interesting subject, i'm glad you girls talk about it, modeling is always ON TOPIC cuz, simply, Bryce modeling abilities are almost equal to zero, I say, if needed, open another thread :P I'm also glad someone is blowing topic in this one, i'm sick and tired of reading ppl bashing Len and not actualy doing something more productive, like RENDERING !!! :D And, BTW Pog, there are two different approaches to sub-d, closed type and open, dunno why, but Wings is made that way from the beginning, bigest obstacle in it i believe, Silo, in the other hand supports both, closed and open type, i guess it's all about what you like or u are more comfortable with ! :D