This is exactly why I had to take a break from Poser a little while back. I modeled a custom figure, things went well until I started on the joints. I recut the mesh 8 or 9 times, remodeled the shoulders and crotch a few, played with the joint editor and setup room until I sobbed uncontrollably. So I shelved the project. At one point I considered JCM's to be the only solution, but I had so many versions of the mesh I couldn't remember which would be the best to work with. In any case, you can only do so much with the joint setup, the rest you have to do with morphs. And that is a tedious job in itself. Mark