"And were there any fractals involved?" Well if there were, Im sure they weren't hurt or abused in anyway. The brand name was Fractal Design. I really don't know that much about the history of Kai,Fractal Design,and MetaCreations,but I think Fractal Design was just a division of one of the other parent companies. Actually I didn't get into Poser until version 3,but I have the original Painter (now Corel Painter) and that was called Fractal Painter. Painter and Poser are cousins... A little feature not many know about is when you use the sketch render mode in Poser, you can export that as a Painter script. Play that script in Painter and it paints/draws your scene...pretty cool. Even more OT reminiscing about Posers roots is I have this program from MetaCreations called Canoma. Take or get some photos of interiors, buildings or entire citiesopen them in Canoma then draw simple objects around them,and they map themselves around and become an obj.file. Very simple to use..a little rough around the edges (like Poser) and has that odd Poser looking UI,but is fantastic for use with Poser and has got to be a mind-blower for animators. Unfortunately after the first version Adobe bought it and has it buried somewhere, but I hear you can still find it on some of the auction sites (even some user groups are still around for it). SWAMP