Thanks Steven, Yeah, I don't really see a solution to this really. In my example I had saved a scene with the three cars and nothing else, default lights. I loaded the scene up again after a fresh reboot, deleted one of the cars, and tried to render in FF production mode. It got a lot farther than before (with all three cars, 1.3mil polygons, it hung at the first "Adding Objects stage with the progress bar empty), now it's hanging at a later Adding Objects stage with the progress bar full. It had already gone through a couple shadow map renders. But if I start a blank scene and add two cars it renders fine. I think there is definitely some cleanup that Poser is failing to do. Guess I'll just have to setup all my high complexity scenes in Poser, and then render them in Vue. It's just not worth the hassel to hopefully get the render in Poser. And having just purchased Vue 5 Esprit, I'll have much better lighting and environment possibilities that P5 ever will.